What if the only thing that mattered in a presentation wasn't eye contact or slide design, but whether you moved your audience to think and feel differently?
What if instead of accumulating credentials that prove compliance, students earned recognition by making meaningful gifts to the world?
Dr. Ben Freud, co-founder of the podcast Coconut Thinking and Head of Upper School at Green School Bali, challenges everything we take for granted about assessment, credentials, and power in education. Our conversation reveals the profound losses required for true educational transformation… and why those losses might be worth it.
Ben's work breaking down symbols of power—removing teacher desks, using first names, involving students in policy-making—connects to a deeper theme about what transformation costs. Real change requires the educated elite to surrender social capital they've spent years accumulating.
These aren't just classroom management techniques. They're questions about who holds authority and why, which are required to foster an education environment that not only transforms individuals, but global society at large.
Perhaps the most revolutionary idea in our discussion is reframing education around contribution rather than accumulation. Ben envisions learning as "gifting"—channeling individual passions toward collective benefit rather than personal advancement.
This shifts the fundamental question from "what did you learn?" to "what did you give?" It moves assessment from individual performance to community impact. It transforms credentials from markers of compliance to evidence of contribution.
Our conversation doesn't resolve all tensions around assessment and credentialing, but it opens space for rawer, more honest exploration of these thorny issues.
Listen to discover why Ben believes transformation requires significant personal loss, how a surf helmet represents two years of learning, and what education might look like if we measured gifts to the world rather than grades on papers.
Thanks, Ben, for a great conversation!
Find Ben's work at coconut-thinking.com and listen to the Coconut Thinking Podcast for more conversations about regenerative education practices.
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The traditional education system had its chance.
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